Hiking for Hidden Gems: Exploring Pennsylvania with Purple Lizard Maps

[00:00:00] Brad Groznik: This is the Rediscover State College podcast. On this show, we talk to locals about how they were able to find their happy place in Happy Valley. I’m your host, Brad Groznik. Today we’re joined by Michael Hermann, founder and lead cartographer at Purple Lizard Maps. His trail maps feature distinctive purple lizards marking hidden gems in places like Rothrock State Forest.

[00:00:25] Brad Groznik: We’ll discuss why Michael focuses on mapping central Pennsylvania and the endless opportunities for exploring these woods, no matter your experience level. Okay, I’m here with Michael Hermann. Michael Hermann, you’re the founder and lead cartographer of Purple Lizard Maps.

[00:00:42] Michael Hermann: Yes.

[00:00:43] Brad Groznik: For those of us who don’t know what Purple Lizard Maps are, can you explain what they are?

[00:00:46] Brad Groznik: What they are and how they work.

[00:00:48] Michael Hermann: Sure. Thank you for having me today. Purple lizard maps are recreational trail maps, and we are a mid Atlantic publisher. So we have maps in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia, Puerto Rico, and soon to be published in. Maryland, and our maps are specifically designed for outdoor recreation.

[00:01:08] Michael Hermann: They’re designed to unlock broad landscapes for people to explore. And they are sort of a highly curated piece that combines art and science. That sort of definition of cartography is a mix of art and science. So we try to make very beautiful maps, very accurate maps. And they encompass all aspects of outdoor recreation.

[00:01:28] Michael Hermann: So it’s hiking trails, biking trails, boat launches, state parks, county parks, state forests, the whole, the whole gamut of outdoor rec to really get people to understand what is in that area so they can get out and explore it.

[00:01:42] Brad Groznik: And from my understanding, you started mapping central Pennsylvania first. I did.

[00:01:47] Brad Groznik: Why map this area?

[00:01:48] Michael Hermann: Why map central Pennsylvania? Well, I got a degree at Penn State. In, uh, geography and digital cartography, I took my first job in, uh, outside of Denver, Colorado with Trails Illustrated National Geographic Maps. And design trail maps for them. And I thought that was sort of Nirvana that for me being an outdoor enthusiast, now I was in Recreation Central and designing trail maps out there.

[00:02:13] Michael Hermann: It only took a couple of years for me to sort of change my focus back to Central PA because sometimes, you know, what’s the saying? You don’t realize what you had until it’s gone. The hindsight looking back at State College, the mountain biking in Central PA is really. Just as good as the mountain biking is Colorado.

[00:02:32] Michael Hermann: Nobody believed me, right? Nobody would hear that, but it is and the whole concept of outdoor recreation and and marketing that and having maps for that was a very established business model in the Western states. And it did not really exist in the East. So I wanted to come back and map Rothrock state forest, which was a forest that was very close to my heart, place that I grew up exploring and mountain biking and hiking and camping in.

[00:03:00] Michael Hermann: And that was my first. Let’s see what I can do as a, as a map designer, design it the way I want it to look, actually build a business around it. So that was my first return to State College to publish that map. That map then went on to be successful and it opened up some other career paths for me. So I left State College and came back a few times.

[00:03:19] Michael Hermann: Now we’re up to present day and Purple Lizard is definitely a full fledged map publishing company on the East Coast.

[00:03:25] Brad Groznik: Yeah. I love that you were out West and then, and people were bragging about the West and you’re like, you know what? This is not so much. Different than, than central Pennsylvania, central Pennsylvania is kind of this like diamond in the rough.

[00:03:37] Brad Groznik: People don’t even know how great it is there.

[00:03:39] Michael Hermann: That’s true. My experience in Colorado was fantastic, but I used to have this saying, the riding and the hiking out here is binary. Meaning you go straight up for an hour, an hour and a half or two hours, and then you go straight down in half the time or a quarter of the time, whether you’re walking or hiking or skiing or mountain biking, but it was very up and down.

[00:03:57] Michael Hermann: It was a picture postcard landscape. It was beautiful, but it was difficult to access. The access points, the gaps, the gaps were like 80 miles apart, 100 miles apart, you know, in central Pennsylvania and the Appalachian mountains. It’s more of a roller coast topography. You know, there’s not much you can’t climb up a long climb is 30 minutes, 40 minutes and then you’re down the other side and then you’re up the other side and you’re down the other side.

[00:04:23] Michael Hermann: And I felt that that landscape was so much more accessible and so much more fun and so much more. rewarding than I was finding out west. And I, and I really wanted to unlock that.

[00:04:34] Brad Groznik: Yeah. I was surprised when I visited friends in Denver and we’ll go hiking and drove an hour to get to the spot.

[00:04:41] Michael Hermann: Right.

[00:04:42] Brad Groznik: And here I can go, you know, just shingle town on my lunch break.

[00:04:45] Brad Groznik: I think a lot of times, yeah, you don’t, you don’t realize just how accessible it is here and how great that is.

[00:04:51] Michael Hermann: Yeah. I mean, out west, it’s rare to find towns that you can actually get on your bicycle and ride to a trailhead.

[00:05:00] Brad Groznik: Yeah, so I mentioned a couple of my favorites. I love Shingletown and I love Mustard Gap, but what are some of your favorite quick accessible hikes?

[00:05:07] Michael Hermann: Sure, I mean, Shingletown is sort of a perennial favorite, and one of the things that we really pride our maps doing is they work as a dispersion tool. Because, as you know, shingle town gap, it can only hold 10 cars, you know, it’s a very small parking lot. There’s no room to expand that parking lot. So that’s the situation where people know shingle town gap.

[00:05:30] Michael Hermann: They don’t necessarily know the other access points to the forest. So our map has the ability to unlock that and people can say, oh, well, that that trail is pretty crowded. But if I drive 10 minutes. In either direction, I can find some other trail and most of them connect. So, like Musser Gap, you can connect to Shingletown Gap, Galbraith Gap by the Tuscany Mountain Skier, you can connect to Shingletown Gap.

[00:05:51] Michael Hermann: So there’s multiple access points on that side of the forest. And then if you want to take Route 26 over the mountain, you can access a tremendous amount of trails. And Pennsylvania State Park says Whipple Dam State Park, Greenwood Furnace State Park, and then there’s the Penn State Stone Valley facility as well, Shabers Creek.

[00:06:10] Brad Groznik: Yeah, we love Stone Valley, especially because we have a five year old, and their trails are super groomed, and you know, there’s the Nature Center right there. In terms of, you know, family trails, people with kids, do you have any suggestions for top trails for that?

[00:06:24] Michael Hermann: Sure. And so that’s one of the drawbacks to a forest like Rothrock State Forest and a lot of the central Pennsylvania forests is that it’s fairly rugged terrain.

[00:06:33] Michael Hermann: So what’s nestled in those state forests are the state parks. And going to a state park is where you will find some easier trails, some flat terrain. In the case of Greenwood and Whipple, you’ll find a beach, you’ll find a lake, you’ll find a body of water. So those are where we suggest people start to access the forest.

[00:06:54] Michael Hermann: Because the trail systems, the loops are smaller, the terrain is easier, and there’s infrastructure. It’s easy to find as a destination. As you get a little more advanced and adventurous in your hiking, you can go find. The more remote trail heads, which aren’t necessarily as well signed as this little spot all over in your car and embark on a trail and hike up onto a ridge or find a viewpoint.

[00:07:19] Brad Groznik: Yeah. So we’ve been talking, we’re talking about Roth rock a lot. I mean, it’s just so huge and kind of can be intimidating for people that just come here of, like, how do we start? So, so starting with, like, those state park areas, I think is, is a great example. Cool. One of the things I, I heard you say once is your maps are full of stories.

[00:07:38] Brad Groznik: What are some stories that are in the Rothrock map that might be, uh, interesting to folks?

[00:07:43] Michael Hermann: We try to include some other information. So for instance, we would make notes about all the CCC camps and where, where those camps are located and the dates that they were there. And oftentimes if you go to that area, foresters will have some interpretive media or some signage to help explain that a little bit more.

[00:08:01] Michael Hermann: So you’ll find the old foundations. Oftentimes the stone chimneys are still standing, and of course that era, the CCC era in the 1930s, was what built the stone spillways that make up the lakes at Whipple Dam State Park and Greenwood Furnace State Park, and also Penn Roosevelt State Park. So that legacy of their construction, that beautiful stonework, is still there, and here we are, a

[00:08:25] Michael Hermann: hundred years later, enjoying that legacy.

[00:08:27] Michael Hermann: That work. So that’s that’s a story to pull out. You know, we put the little purple lizards on our maps and we don’t necessarily tell you what they are. So that lets people make their own stories and that they can go find those lizards. And there’ll be some interesting spot when they get there and some of those lizard spots you can drive to some you hike to and they’ll usually be a Vista or an interesting waterfall or water feature, or maybe some old remnant of a foundation.

[00:08:59] Michael Hermann: So it’s something worth finding. And in that way, people get to make their own stories, the chasing of the lizards.

[00:09:05] Brad Groznik: Yeah. So someone just moving to town could grab one of your maps and just start chasing the lizards.

[00:09:11] Michael Hermann: Yeah. It makes a fun destination. So you’re looking at the map and normally a map’s just sort of a maze of.

[00:09:16] Michael Hermann: Of roads or trails or whatever. And there’s, there’s no hint as to what’s out there. So the lizards give people a reason to say, well, let’s just, we’ll just go here and we’ll see what’s there. And of course, they’ll find things between points A and B getting there.

[00:09:29] Brad Groznik: Got to ask about the name purple lizard.

[00:09:31] Brad Groznik: Where did that come from? Why a purple lizard?

[00:09:34] Michael Hermann: When I wanted to start a map company, all the existing map company names were pretty boring. I wanted to come up with something that was. More fun that would cause people to say, Oh, what, what is that? What? That doesn’t make sense to me. And a purple lizard was just sort of the outgrowth of that idea to do something different.

[00:09:53] Michael Hermann: Purple was always one of my favorite colors. Lizards exist in all 48 of the lower 48 states in the U S and purple lizards. You know, it’s grown into its own thing.

[00:10:03] Brad Groznik: What’s it been like building this business with your partner and, you know, is Justine a cartographer or did she just marry just this wild outdoorsman, you know, cartographer?

[00:10:15] Michael Hermann: It’s been wonderful because she’s not a cartographer. So, you know, we bring two different things to the business. She brings marketing and business development to the business and I can focus a little bit more on the art side of the business. But she certainly is. Very big into hiking very big into the outdoors.

[00:10:36] Michael Hermann: That’s a big part of this business is the 2 of us going to try to figure out where we’re going to map next is going to these other communities and deciding if that area is sort of worthy of a purple lizard map.

[00:10:49] Brad Groznik: I mean, that just sounds so romantic. You guys. Going around in the woods, trying to figure out where you’re going to map.

[00:10:56] Brad Groznik: It sounds old timey.

[00:10:58] Michael Hermann: In the sense that that’s one of the things that that’s unique about purple lizard and something that we really pride ourselves on is that we are in the landscapes that we map. We go to those communities. We meet with those people. We spend time in those communities. We get a sense of how that landscape is used and yes, so on one hand, it has this romantic side to it.

[00:11:18] Michael Hermann: And then there’s the reality, right? Sometimes what that means is that’s 12 hours in the truck driving down a lot of dead end dirt roads, trying to find the jewels in the rough. You spend a lot of time just finding the rough. But it is. We really do enjoy that, the travel part of it, certainly.

[00:11:34] Brad Groznik: In a world with all trails and Strava, where is Purple Lizard in that world?

[00:11:39] Michael Hermann: We are the big picture. We unlock the big picture because There is still and there’s an interesting, there’s only been more demand for the big paper map and that’s a direct reflection of 2 things. The increase in cartographic literacy because everybody has maps on their phone and the limitation of the size of the phone.

[00:11:58] Michael Hermann: So, you can use all trails. Or you can use an app to say, I want to go hike this 3 mile trail. But when you zoom out and try to say, wow, we have a day to spend here. Where else are we going to go? Those resources fall apart. Being able to lay out a big purple lizard map and put together this half day driving loop.

[00:12:18] Michael Hermann: Or this 50 mile gravel loop. That whole concept of like, Bring in a trail and follow the blue dot and go do your hike. That’s fine. But you miss a lot, right? Because you miss, you don’t understand what all your other options might be. So it’s a good way for people to start maybe to get out and do one hike, but then you want to go back and explore that landscape in more detail.

[00:12:40] Michael Hermann: Try some other hikes, try some different loops, you know, that’s our tagline is make your own adventure.

[00:12:46] Brad Groznik: I’m curious, you know, after spending so much time in the outdoor recreation scene here, what’s what’s missing or what does Colorado have that central Pennsylvania doesn’t?

[00:12:57] Michael Hermann: I don’t know that there’s much missing.

[00:13:00] Michael Hermann: In Pennsylvania’s outdoor rec space. I mean, the diversity of trails from rail trails to difficult. Backpacking hiking trails, there’s rock climbing, there’s. Water sources to kayak on, there’s flat water, there’s white water. Pretty much every. aspect of recreation is represented in Pennsylvania. You know, we have ski areas.

[00:13:27] Michael Hermann: They’re not, they’re not like Vail and Breckenridge ski areas, but you can very easily go skiing for an afternoon. You can very easily pick pretty much every sport that exists. And go do that in the Pennsylvania public lands landscape. I think that’s often overlooked. I think a lot of people don’t realize that.

[00:13:47] Brad Groznik: I know you are a mountain biker and have been for a long, long time. Can you talk a little bit about the resources for mountain biking in this area? I

[00:13:54] Michael Hermann: mean, Roth Rock is a destination for mountain bikers all over the East Coast. One of the allures to it is the technical riding and the technical riding means that It’s hard riding.

[00:14:05] Michael Hermann: It’s a lot of rough rocks, single track with exposed rock gardens and things like that. And that’s something that an advanced mountain biker seeks. So the downside to that is it’s not very beginner friendly mountain biking. But Center County’s done a great job at creating places like the trails at Harvest Fields in Bolzberg, where there’s a trail system that’s minutes from State College.

[00:14:30] Michael Hermann: That’s suitable for any age group. So you can take the youngest of mountain bikers there to get an idea of what skills they need to progress as mountain bikers. And then with their gravel riding, the gravel road network is phenomenal in Rothrock State Forest and the surrounding forests.

[00:14:45] Brad Groznik: Yeah, it always surprises me on Instagram.

[00:14:48] Brad Groznik: I’ll just see about some gravel race and like, Oh, there was a gravel race at Rothbach. And then you click the story on Instagram and there’s like hundreds of people in like brands, in like everybody’s decked out and it’s just like such a, such a scene.

[00:15:02] Michael Hermann: Yes. And not, and not just mountain biking. The trail running scene is, is quite popular here too.

[00:15:07] Michael Hermann: There’s a lot of long distance trail running events that happen out there. You saw the Ironman came to this area. The swim happened at a state park, Bald Eagle State Park. You know, the other thing that happens out there is all the stuff that people don’t see. The people that are quietly out backpacking for a few nights.

[00:15:25] Michael Hermann: No, the Mid State Trail, when you are in State College and you look up at that long ridgeline that’s visible from most businesses and homes in State College, that the Mid State Trail runs on the top of that in a lot of those sections. That trail goes north to New York State and south to Maryland. It crosses the entire state of Pennsylvania.

[00:15:43] Michael Hermann: It’s over 300 miles long. It’s amazing that you can just disappear out onto that trail and go for a walk with your backpack for as many days as you’re comfortable being out.

[00:15:52] Brad Groznik: Where would you like to see the outdoor recreation scene go in the next 10 years?

[00:15:57] Michael Hermann: It’s going to continue to grow. So I think the most important thing, and I’m happy to say that that is happening now in a very good way, Is planning for that growth, building additional trails, additional trail systems, planning for the parking lots, you know, to try to avoid the situations that some of the areas we, we mentioned out West suffer from being able to ramp up and handle that capacity.

[00:16:22] Michael Hermann: So that everybody still has a good experience. And the quality of life. Still stays very high and state college. That’s that’s the most important thing. This community is extremely proactive to that. There’s a lot of different clubs and groups through hiking and through mountain biking. The Roth Rock Trail Alliance that’s really spearheading has an umbrella organization to bring all these groups together to help identify the problems of the trails, build new trails.

[00:16:51] Michael Hermann: If you want to volunteer. To help clean up trails. That’s one of the groups to be a part of. And that’s one of the reasons that this area has grown recreationally. And one of the reasons it’s special, it has a really strong sense of community. So if you move here and you don’t know anybody, and you say, I want to learn more about this outdoor rec.

[00:17:11] Michael Hermann: There’s, there’s a bunch of different groups that are welcome for you to join. And they’ll take you out on a hike. They’ll take you out on a mountain bike ride. Then go do trail cleanup. You can learn about the assets. That we have and how to use them responsibly.

[00:17:25] Brad Groznik: One of the things about state college or this community is you need to be a little bit proactive when you first get here And to reach out and to say and to raise your hand But man, once you raise your hand and get involved It’s like a water slide like all of a sudden you’re just you’re totally involved And I think I contrast that with, with bigger cities or bigger areas because so much of this stuff is already done for you.

[00:17:50] Brad Groznik: And I think it feels easier to access in bigger places because so much of the work has already been done and here we’re still doing the work. And I think doing the work and having that small community. And being part of that is so much more special

[00:18:04] Michael Hermann: when these big storms come through and trees fall down the social media and website networks of these organizations as people go out.

[00:18:12] Michael Hermann: They’re like, Hey, there’s 3 big trees down on this trail, you know, what can we do about it? And people are like, Hey, let’s meet out there on Tuesday and we’ll go in there and we’ll cut them out. Right? So, if you’re from a city, you just assume that these, yeah. Things magically happen. Well, there must be staff that goes out and opens that up, right?

[00:18:30] Michael Hermann: Well, this is not a national park scenario. This is there is no staff to do that. This is very grassroots level. And what that does is it gives people a personal connection to that trail to that place. So they’re like, wow, you know, I was part of the crew that came out here and helped. Open that up and every time you walk past there, you look at that pile of trees and logs like.

[00:18:50] Michael Hermann: I did that. I was part of the crew that opened that up because that’s, you live here and you play here and you’re a steward of these public lands. And I think when, when those three things come together, that’s the very holistic, healthy feeling that people want to tie them to a sense of place and a sense of community.

[00:19:10] Brad Groznik: I couldn’t agree more. I’m super inspired by that. I think you captured exactly why. I love this area in this community in general, not just the outdoor recreation, but in general, that’s the case. So now we’re going to enter our segment called how to do the thing, where we ask you to briefly lay out for us in three actionable steps, how to do the thing, or at least how to get started doing the thing.

[00:19:32] Brad Groznik: The thing in this case is hiking in State College. What would you say are three actionable steps our listeners could take toward achieving that goal?

[00:19:40] Michael Hermann: Hiking is such a wonderful way to start because anybody can do it. You don’t need high tech clothes. You don’t need fancy shoes. You don’t, you have, you already have everything you need.

[00:19:51] Michael Hermann: To go for a hike in the woods to get started, what you want to do is find a place that you’re comfortable going to. So I always suggest state parks is a great place to start because there’s usually a very simple, small trail system. You won’t be too worried about getting lost. Won’t be in too difficult terrain.

[00:20:07] Michael Hermann: You’ll have everything you need. Parallel to that is Shavers Creek, Shavers Creek, the Penn State working forest is a phenomenal place to walk around Lake Perez as well. You can do it in regular sneakers, no problem, but if you like it, you’re going to want more of it. You start to take on bigger challenges.

[00:20:26] Michael Hermann: So at that point, you do want a little more special gear, right? You’re going to want to upgrade your shoe game. To be more appropriate for more difficult terrain, you’re going to want some good rain gear, some weather protection because you’re going to start going out in more interesting climate situations.

[00:20:40] Michael Hermann: And I always say, you know, don’t not go for height because it’s raining. It’s lovely to be out in the woods in the rain. It’s fantastic. So start off slow. You’re going to want to build up your stamina for walking as it turns into hiking. You’re going to want to pick up a few good maps so you can expand that.

[00:20:57] Michael Hermann: But then the second step, right? So then you want to move forward on that. A lot of that does come down to these groups, and there’s so many of them. These different outdoor clubs, and a lot of them are specialized just for hiking. A lot of them are more diverse under that umbrella. You’ll find people that are trail running or mountain biking.

[00:21:12] Michael Hermann: Trying to get with some other people. To go out on these bigger hikes and these bigger adventures. So you’re not necessarily out there alone. That’s sort of the transition point. You’re out with other people. Maybe you’re doing your 1st overnight with some other people that have camped before. So you don’t feel too exposed and you can sort of learn from them.

[00:21:33] Michael Hermann: And then it goes back like the 3rd step of doing the thing. It goes back away from the social stuff, because now it’s all about you right now. You’ve got the confidence and you’ve got the skill set and you have the physical stamina. And that’s usually when it shifts to saying, I want to go back for 50 miles.

[00:21:54] Michael Hermann: And I want to have my backpack and be self contained. And maybe go by myself, or maybe go with 1 or 2 other people. Because now you have the confidence to go build a bigger adventure. And the beautiful thing about State College is. You don’t have to leave. To find all three of those steps, because all three of those steps, all three of those experiences all exist in the same landscape.

[00:22:19] Michael Hermann: That’s rock rock state forest.

[00:22:20] Brad Groznik: That is

[00:22:20] Michael Hermann: awesome.

[00:22:22] Brad Groznik: Michael, thank you so much for chatting with us. We are lucky to have you in our community. Thank you for your. Contribution with the maps, but also, you know, just to the community and everything you do.

[00:22:33] Michael Hermann: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I love talking about this place.

[00:22:36] Michael Hermann: It’s, it’s always very dear to my heart.

[00:22:41] Brad Groznik: Thanks for joining us for this episode of the rediscover state college podcast. If you like what you heard and want to hear more, please subscribe to the rediscover state college podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts. If you want to connect with Michael about anything we just talked about, or you just have some thoughts about hiking and say college that you’d like to share with us, email us at hello at rediscover state college. com.